No clutch pedal, no visable leak!

[Anonymous]

OK, what's going on with my '87 Westie?   Suddenly (OK-after sitting a few days) there's no resistance at the clutch pedal-- it goes right to the floor without activating the slave cyl at the tranny.   But: NO puddle at either end.   So I added LOTS of fluid to the joint reservoir-brake/clutch (to fill it), and yes, the brakes still worked.   Lots of pumping the pedal, still no back-pressure, no clutch action.  STILL no puddle, either!   And I don't think I could have missed that much wetness under the driver's mat.   Under the lower end of the steering col, under the car, is a flat surface that looks like some kind of pan (?plastic?).   Could that be holding the missing fluid?   If so , the leak is at the front.  (I did a rear on an '86 a few years ago.) How do I get to the clutch master cyl?   I've got about 2 days of good weather forcast.   Thanks for any help.  Chris H, in VA near DC [and an original founding LiMBO (and NEATO) member long ago and far away in a Boston galaxy].

[Anonymous]

Chris,<br><br>I had this happen to me a few years ago on my '87 Syncro. It had been sitting outside in the cold for several weeks and I went to try and start it. The clutch pedal went to the floor. I added some fluid to the reservoir and was able to get the pedal pressure back by continuosly pumping it by hand (for 20 minutes or so). I never did find the leak and sold the van later that winter. The clutch was working fine when I sold it.<br><br>I've never done a clutch master cylinder myself so I can't give you much insight on that. Hopefully someone else on our forum can give you some tips on the R&I.<br><br>-Stan Wohlfarth

[Anonymous]

OK this is too weird, I have the same condition on my 86 Westy!  Had been using it as a daily driver for a few weeks, then I parked it for maybe 2 weeks and no clutch.  <br><br>The fluid had dropped below the clutch out-feed line, so I have brakes and figured there's a leak in the clutch system- but I cannot find any - clutch master dry, as well as the slave.  I added LOTS of fluid as well - no clutch yet.  I'm thinking that it is posible that there is a very slow leak and after the fluid level drops enough, you loose the clutch.  The brake lines go out of the brake master at a point lower than the clutch line.  this makes sense, since any leak in the clutch system will be unable to drop the level to the point you have no brakes.<br><br>To check the clutch master, you need to pull the carpet away form under the drivers sides, near the pedals, the clutch master is right there.<br><br>I figure besides this check and checking the clutch slave (just forward of engine bay) you need to do the same as I, inspect the entire line going from the clutch master to the slave. Look at the front calipers and brake lines (metal and rubber) for leak.  Pull rear brakes and look at rear wheel brake cylinders.<br><br>I'm betting it's my rear wheel cylinders, since my slave and clutch master appear dry.  <br><br>Hit list<br>Check for leaks in clutch system first<br>  clutch master <br>  slave cylinder<br>  clutch hydraulic lines<br>Brake system next<br>  rear wheel cylinders<br>  front caliper area <br>  brake lines - rubber and metal <br><br>John R<br><br><br><br>

[Anonymous]

Forgot to say, that it seems if you do indeed need to replace the clutch master, that more than likely you will need to bleed the system twice. <br><br>Once after the install, then again a week or so later.  I can't tell you why, but I had throughly researched this subject and that't the general concenus.  Seems, many replace the master only to loose the clutch again and then replace the slave (or vice versa).  A re-bleed in several cases has put the system right for a few people. <br><br>This does make sense as the slave failing 2weeks after the master for several people is just too much of a conincidence.<br><br>John R

[Anonymous]

Mystery resolved:  (and  I'm interested to know I'm not unique in finding this condition)   The rug and mat under the pedals were/have always been a little "damp"--probably small amounts of fluid.  Back under the tranny, there was a bit more dampness--accounting for the slow drip-stain on the blacktop where I park (which I had assumed was oil--and I regularly topped off the oil if it was low).   So after a few more days, the pedal started coming back.  Maybe if I had pump[ed for twenty minutes it would have been there quickly.   SO:  i assume I drip enough fluid at the slave/tranny cylinder to eventually put air in the line.  Since I let it sit after I encountered the problem, no doubt more air got in.   Filling the reservoir, plus time/pumping brings it back.   Since it is a very slow leak, and in a system not nearly as critical as the brakes, I'll keep a monthly eye on the reservoir level, wash out the carpet mat with hand cleaner/then detergent, and see if I can put off a full repair for a few years.    Thanks for comments!   Now: to finish the new 4-banger 1.9L for my '72  VW-Porsche 914--presumably in the garage, at least until swap-out time .   -Chris H in VA 'burbs of DC

[Vanagonjr]

I checked out my 86 a little more closely and the slave is damp.  Still can't imagine why it isn't more wet back there after all the fluid I added leaked out.



I'm going to change out the slave, thinking about the clutch master at the same time.  I find I only have so much time for these things so it's good to take care of a system when possible.  Still, I have enough items to buy and I hate to waste money - any thoughts?



A friend of mine told me he would up replacing the slave, clutch master and lines all within the same year.  



I believe my lines are fine - Again any thoughts?

[Stanagon]

Just do the slave and see how it goes. You can always find more stuff to do "while you're there", so be careful. I replaced a slave on my '81 years ago and don't think I've done any work on the hydraulic system since then.