77 westy has starting problems

[Anonymous]

I recently bought this Westy with a starting problem. The fuel pump was not working, replaced it and IT works but the bus won't start. it will turn over. I've checked the points, gap is good. I've check for spark seems to be there as well. The plugs are gapped correctly also. I tried to check the injectors and there seems to be no fuel spraying from them? <br><br>The previous owner said he had sprayed starting fluid into it to try and get it to start?!?!?<br><br>I've also tried to push strart with no success. I've done some reading on it and I'm not sure where to go next.

[Anonymous]

start off with a compresion test . anything less than 100 psi might be the problem. if everything is ok . check all and clean all grounds.check the signals off the injectors connectors . there should be a pulse/blink on the test light . if there is a pulse .check the fuel pressure regulator . there should be a test port on the d/s fuel rail . it should be 28 psi . also make sure the timing is correct . if none of these help .bust out the bentley and go thru the f/i system troubleshooting. good luck

[Anonymous]

I've since pulled an injector out, while turning the engine over and there was no fuel mistwhat so ever. Also could a multi-meter sub for the test light. If so there was also no pulse of any power to the meter. <br><br>  Does the ECU directly control the injectors or might there be something like an inline fuse? The fuses in the box all seem ok. <br><br>PS, I'm now registered as BoSoxBusBoy and thanks for the info

[cc6344454]

I recently went through "starting problem Hell".  I did all the things you did. You know what it was? Ground problem!!!! <br><br>Mine was at the starter. I gave it a look see and it seemed fine.... but it wasn't. No matter how good your grounds look, take them off and clean them. Visually, it looked fine,  no crud or obvious signs of corrosion. When I took it apart there was a fine white powder on it, but that was all. Regardless, I cleaned and polished it. And guess what? "It Started". I think there is also a ground strap somewhere on your vehicle, check that too. I heard they cause problems. <br>When I wrote about my problem, my friend Rich Macensky wrote back, "Electronic fuel injection and the whole system works on very low voltage and is susceptible to poor ground connections. <br><br>It may or may not be the problem, but eliminate it right from the start, it is easy to do.

[Anonymous]

Well, I've troubleshot all the wires, the double relay, the resistors, wires to the fuel injectors and injectors. <br><br>I put a test light on the injectors and there was no flickering (3 to 5 volts).<br><br>I jumped pins 36 to 39 on the air sensor harness and 17 to 32, 17 to 33, 15 to 16 and 14 to 16 on the ECU harness. I tried starting with these pins jumped and it ran real lousy but it did start. Upon reconecting to the ECU all it would do was turn over without starting. <br><br>I also shot all the wires through the ECU harness. All grounds checked good. I did the voltage checks as well. The book I have said that if the #1 pin to the grounds under the left manifold checks good to replace the ECU.<br><br>From what I'm seeing it looks as though the ECU could be the problem. Do you think this is possible <br><br>Also do you think the air sensor could cause any problems?<br><br>The "book" I was using was the Bosch L-Jetronic Fuel Injection Manual

[cc6344454]

What clued me in that I had a grounding problem was that my voltmeter measurements were all over the place. Nothing made sense, the readings were goofy. I don't know for sure but it doesn't seem like the voltage at your fuel pump should be 3-5 volts.<br>The first thing I would do is follow your "hot" wire off the battery and see where it goes. Where ever it is connected take it off and clean it  REGARDLESS of how it looks or tests. Mine terminated at the starter and that is what I cleaned and it started after months of not starting. <br><br>I'll notify LiMBO president, Stan. He works for Bently, the VW bible publisher. Maybe he can help. But, I think he is on vacation this week.

[Anonymous]

Sorry for the confusion. When checking for correctly operating injectors you connect a test light to the plug going to the injectors. While cranking the engine the test light should flicker. It take approx. 3-5 volts to operate these since the power goes through the resister block.<br><br>Remember it start roughly with those pins mentioned earlier jumped.<br><br>The manual takes you through all the electrical as far as ohming, checking for voltage, proper operation of relays, the air flow sensor. It has you check everything BUT the ECU.

[Anonymous]

I'd see if you could find a known good or new ECU for  a '77 Bus (or a bus with the same engine code as yours) and see if it solves the problem. Getting it to start with the jumper wires in place does seem to suggest an ECU problem.<br><br>I believe your engine code is "GD" (it should be stamped on the block somewhere). Page 5-87 of the Bentley manual has a list of engine codes in the General Engine Data table. It looks like the same engine was used from August 1975 (1976 model year) through 1979. You do NOT want an ECU for a '79 California spec. bus though.<br><br>You could also try posting your symptoms on the bay window bus forum at www.thesamba.com, they get a lot more activity there than we do here.<br><br>Good luck, Stan

[Anonymous]

it's very rare for an ECU to go bad. however, given that you've tested the double relay(my first geuss)grounds,and other FI components,ignition etc, you may be the first person i've heard of with a bad one. if you're certain thats what you need i have a non cali 79 ECU for sale. email me for details.<br><br>dave

[Anonymous]

Ok after installing a new ECU she'll start with the AFM wedged open, remove the wedge it dies. the dual relay was replaced with a known good one. <br><br>Why would it start with the AFM disconnected, wedged open? I understand there is a signal that goes to the fuel pump. Also, when turning over you can here the AFM flapping away. <br><br>It seems like a simple system but I'm confused.<br><br>Also the fuel pressure gauge (which I made per the notes provided) looks realy nice but I cant get enough fuel up to it to get a reading. How long should the hose be?<br><br>Still confused? <br><br>This is not an indication of not enough pressure is it. <br>(New fuel pump was installed)

[Anonymous]

Well once again I've tried to start. I can start with the AFM half open, held in place.  Get on the throttle once it's started and she dies. Unplug the afm and it continues to run. Get on the throttle gingerly and she will pick up rpms. I was also able to drive it up and down the street with the afm disconnected. <br><br>It wont start initially with the afm disconnected but if I jump 36 and 39 to get the fuel pump running it will start.<br><br>Stumped!!

[Red Baron]

This may sound like a stupid question, but, do you have a Bentley manual?  There is a nice section about testing all the FI equipment.  You don't need anything more than a digital  multimeter and a test light.   The Engine basically has like four sensors.  3 temp and one air flow.  There is a temp sensor in the AFM, one on the cylinder head and one under the center intake manifold.   The manual gives charts and graphs for the resistance readings the sensor should be giving for certain temps.  Sounds to me like a temp sensor isn't doing its job.  Good luck.

[Anonymous]

I have a L-Jetronic FI manual with a troubleshooting section for all components hooked to the harness. I went through and did resistance checks and voltage checks aslo checked grounds through the harness and all seemed to check fine. I was recently reading about the start valve and temp sensor and was thinking in that direction.<br><br>Will the temp sensor not allow it to idle with everything in a normal configuration?

[Anonymous]

It sounds to me like the AFM isn't kicking the fuel pump on.  Have you popped the top off the AFM yet?  On the right side you should see something like this:<br><br><br><br>See the bent part with the arrow pointing at it?  That is the fuel pump turn on/shut off contact.  Ours was contacting the counterweight and shorting the fuel pump out, so it would start, but then quickly die. <br><br>Perhaps your contacts are not clean, or it isn't making contact to turn the pump on?<br><br>You can read all about our saga with getting the FI to run in our 78 here:<br><br>http://http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=118520<br><br>Hope you get it running soon!